Welcome to the recovery. com podcast.  I'm Dr.

Mala, your host. And today I'm joined by fellow host Amanda Uphoff. Hi, Amanda. 

 Hi, Dr. Mala.

We are so excited to be joined today by Rena Shoshana Forester. She's an educator, a healer and a mentor with 10 years and more than 10 years of experience with organizations and individuals. Internationally across various disciplines. And we're going to just dive right in today. Welcome Rina. So

Dr. Mala and Amanda and the whole recovery. com team for inviting me to be here.  

 let's start off with your journey.  I know you've got a pretty extensive journey, so would you mind sharing that with us today? 

 Definitely.  I guess to put a title on the whole thing, I like to call this my journey from PTSD to PTGO. And that's a term I made up that stands for post traumatic growth order. Feel So the story starts. Thank God I had a really lovely childhood and we all have things to heal from childhood. But my big thing that I had to heal from came later in life when I was living in Vietnam  and I had a near death motorcycle accident. But I didn't realize that it was near death. I didn't realize the severity at the time because in Vietnam, when you have an accident, you just get back on your bike and keep going. 

So that's what I did. And for seven years, I lived with the unconscious trauma of that near death motorcycle accident. And I had a number of diseases come up. I actually like to call them dis eases because it was being out of ease. Um, but it took me seven years to understand that PTSD was the root. So in that time, I faced depression, I faced orthorexia and unhealthy eating patterns, hormonal imbalances, including PCOS. 

And I wound up in a marriage that turned abusive. And I really see all of these things as symptoms of the trauma that was running my life. And, um, oh, also a herniated disc.  And once I understood, like I healed those symptoms and then  I understood that the root of all of this was trauma and thank God I've studied trauma and I work with people who have trauma and we're just only able to see ourselves so clearly.

But once I was able to see myself clearly, then I was able to.  To heal it and close it out and see that since then my life has been  unfolding much more usefully, much more like the things that I want to happen happen.  

 That sounds amazing. 

  I love Everything you just said, Rena, I, um, I had a similar thing happen in my body in my life that taught me that these things are very closely related. Um, and if you don't listen, your body will make you listen.  am so curious if you could  us through some of the ways.  That led you to this conclusion that it was the trauma and then also how you the steps that you've taken to to start healing.

 just over two years ago,  I understood that my marriage had become abusive and I. Got myself out of the situation and we got divorced. And it's also worth mentioning that my former husband and I today have a really peaceful and respectful relationship that we've both worked really hard to establish. 

Um, but it was when I was going through the process of getting divorced, that I started to. It was almost like something in my subconscious was bubbling up and there started to be like, I imagine a bulletin board with different pieces I started to see that there were strings connecting them.

And there were, it was a lot coming up about Vietnam and the motorcycle accident, but it was like, there were all pieces all over the bulletin board. And I, was starting to see there were connections, but I didn't see it super clearly.  And. kept living and doing my best. And then about half a year after that, I went to visit one of my oldest and dearest childhood friends in Los Angeles. 

And I woke up one morning there, and I couldn't move the whole upper part of my body. I was in excruciating pain.  And I thankfully found an amazing chiropractor, Dr. Todd Gawant in Los Angeles. I'm happy to recommend him. He saw me on a Saturday. He had a full list of 13 clients he was already seeing, but he saw me after all of them  and did a little assessment and looked me in the eye and said, and at this point also I shared with him that I thought it had something to do with the motorcycle accident and that I was recently divorced. 

And He looked me in the eye and he said, you probably have a herniated disc.  Don't worry. I have seven. I've never had an injection for pain and I've never had surgery for pain. You have a lot of healing to do. It starts with forgiving yourself.  And I accepted his mission.  And he also has written a couple of children's books and I bought one of the children's books 

 📍 and  there's 

activities in it that are kind of like self healing self reflective and I bought that as a commitment to take his message seriously  and I have here my neck brace because interestingly enough now that I like I I'm jumping a little bit, but now that I understand 

 📍 that,   basically the 

motorcycle accident was a physical manifestation of  I was already experiencing in Vietnam relating to culture shock and the work environment that wasn't really so healthy.

So now if ever I experienced pain, it's either right before my period or when I have something exciting happening specifically around work or sharing my story. So like literally in the 15 minutes before I hopped on to record this, I was like, Oh, there's the pain. And I put my neck brace on and then I, I did the dishes and then I felt it relieve a little bit.

So I took it off. I put a, I had just have it with me here, but I had thought of that because. Um, he got, he was able to help me relieve the pain just enough. And he sold me this amazing neck brace and I left Los Angeles. I flew to Phoenix where I met my parents and my aunt and uncle.  And I used all of my own tools for self healing, uh, which at that time included restorative yoga, yoga, Nidra.

hot and cold therapy, a technique called focusing and massage and chiropractor.  while I was in Phoenix and doing this healing work, I just like, it's my throat chakra. So for anyone who's familiar with the chakra system, the throat chakra has a lot to do with speaking. And as now it was kind of being opened, there was like all this.

All these words that were suddenly coming out of me and I was sharing them with my parents. Thank God I was with them. And one of the things I said, I feel like there's something that I really need to heal around my divorce that is. Part, there's something that's keeping me in some kind of a loop and it's somehow connected to my divorce.

And I feel myself moving forwards and getting to the places I want to get to. And then instead of moving forwards, I go down and there's this cycle. And I said, I don't know what I need. I don't know if I need professional help, if I need to go back to India and be in an ashram, if it's inpatient, if it's outpatient, like, I don't know what it is, but I feel like I need something. 

And. Um, I was already seeing a therapist at the time and we just thought, what if the therapist I'm working with would want to work with me more intensely  and I spoke with her about it  and she was very open to the idea and so we committed and when I was in Phoenix for about five days and then I came back to Israel where I live and immediately started an intensive outpatient program with her, which was Uh, nine hours a week for six weeks  It's actually kind of funny  Like the the pieces hadn't quite come together I was doing a lot of work with her obviously and one day while I was in this program I just sat with a neighbor of mine on her couch catching up how's life.

La la la Here's what i'm going through and as I shared with my friend about My life experience and where I was at and what was going 

 📍 on.  She 

said. Sounds to me like you have PTSD.  And I said,  what?  And she was like, yeah, I think you have PTSD and she didn't think it was a big deal.

Like she thought I knew. And I went home and opened up all my notes about PTSD. And I was like, Oh my gosh, yeah, like that's, that's what I have now I understand why I keep being in this loop and why I can't move forwards. And I sent a message to my therapist and I said, I think I have PTSD. 

She barely acknowledged it.  I got to the next session with her. and she like acted as if everything was normal. And I, at one point I stopped her. I said, how come you didn't acknowledge the whole PTSD thing?  it's kind of a big deal.  And she said, I thought you knew.  And I, I said, I had no idea.

And I'd worked with a clinical psychologist. She's the third therapist I've worked with. In addition to a clinical psychologist in seven in the seven year time, but nobody identified it. And I give them the benefit of the doubt because what I believe, I'm not a therapist, but what I now am sort of understanding is that when.

A person, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, when a person goes to therapy,  the therapist has to be really careful with  letting the client be a director of their journey. And it's a really vulnerable position for a person to be in. So I respect that these people probably like, I don't know, didn't want to.

put any wrong ideas in my head. I don't really know. And I also think that they didn't,  they've never dealt with someone who's been through what I've been through and it's a pretty unusual situation to have a near death motorcycle accident in Vietnam and not recognize the severity of it. 

And because I am someone who is generally aware and does do a lot of work on myself and is pretty comfortable  Speaking openly about things that are going on in my life, they probably genuinely thought that I knew I don't, I don't know.  so that that's what happened.  and I really credit the tools that I had in my toolbox like even though I faced a lot of disease in those seven years,  relatively speaking. I did pretty well  and I accomplished a lot and I really credit my professional background in yoga and in health and in education  and in being trauma informed So I was able to get myself to the point that I got to. Um, and once I understood that it was PTSD,  I've since been to a psychiatrist and it's been formally diagnosed.  the turning point was once I understood that it was PTSD and it was confirmed, then I knew.

that I had to re experience the trauma in order to heal it. I knew that I had to go inwards in order to heal it. So I made a date, I set a date with myself. I brought myself to a river that I really liked going to,  And I laid under the bridge by the river  and Brought myself into a meditative state and then visualized re experiencing the accident. And at one point, I was really scared to see myself on the side of the road, blacked out for a moment, and really scared for my parents And I got past that fear and I saw a divine light. That had come down  and saved my life. Because for anyone who has not been to Vietnam,  the streets there are filled with basically a never ending sea of motorcycles.  And so I saw that that divine light had come down and stopped the sea of motorcycles.  And I understood, okay, if that divine light is going to follow me to the side of the road in Vietnam, that it sure as hell can find me anywhere that I am.  And, and there's, there's gotta be a reason that I was spared and that my family was spared from having to go through.

Anything worse And so once I understood that there was a reason, and once I understood that there was this energetic connection to something that wanted me to be alive, and that was able to give me energy to protect me, I was able to tap into that. And I continue to this day to tap into that.

Divine energy, that divine light, anytime that I feel like I need a boost of energy or a little bit of confidence and I just imagine it and remember that it's here with me all the time. 

 I am so moved by  that whole narrative and you're telling retelling of your experience.   So many things I want to say, and I'm going to say just,  sorry  from the field of psychology, that you experienced that,  whole, you know, period where it was just assumed that you knew.  and to your earlier comment   as therapists,  the control. I'm going to say  That, sure, we have to be careful, but    client driven or allowing,  the person that we're talking to and working with to drive  really, really important.

And there are different ways to do that, which I'm not going to go into right now  but the heart of it is empowering the healing process.  the pace that the person that we're working with is able to handle and us kind of like walking alongside them, right? As they do it, that's ideal.

 So I'm glad that you were able to find your path  That you found empowerment in your journey,  so, so, so big.  Can you  tell us a little bit more about  empowerment means to you. In the context of healing and self growth and how you also translated that into the work that you do with others.

 that's a, that's a big good question.  so being empowered, as I understand it, is to be in my power,  as opposed to playing the role of a victim.  at  some point in this journey, relatively late, once I understood that PTSD was a part of this, I watched a documentary.

about trauma. And listeners may or may not know this, that people  experience trauma and either they experience stress as a result, or they experience profound growth as a result. And so when I watched that and I understood that for seven years, I had been experiencing the stress.

and disorder  I went back to being empowered and that I get to choose if I'm going to be in my power or if I'm going to play the role of a victim  and I chose in that moment that I'm not going to play the role of a victim because I've seen what that does and I don't like the results that come from it and that I want to choose to be.

And I thought, okay, I need to change the wording because like if I'm using PTSD stress disorder, stress disorder, that's not going to, that's not a very empowering  wording.  And it just really quickly came to me. Ah, okay. How can I change it? Well, instead of stress, it's growth.

And then instead of disorder, it's order. And I'm bringing order to my life through this growth that happened as a result of the trauma. I've been able to find gratitude for having been through this experience. And this transitions into the professional work that I do because it allows me to understand trauma in a way that I didn't up until the point that I realized that I was also carrying trauma.  

 Absolutely. That's amazing. And I love the, the shift of the narrative and the focus, you know, you got the formal diagnosis and then immediately it sounds like you shifted that to what you needed to do to focus on that growth and that empowerment. I love that shift. That's absolutely wonderful.

Thank you.

Um,  Yeah, I think, you know, so there's healing force. You've got a healing force.  did you help yourself stay on that journey of knowing and recognizing what your healing force and what your healing energy is? And was there ever a time when you felt like you were getting derailed? And if so, how did you get back on it?

 Yeah.   My grandmother, suffered from severe anxiety and depression for most of her life. And one of my cousins and me were the two people in the world that she gave unconditional love to.

And  somehow from a young age, intuitively, I understood that my grandma  had suffered trauma in her early life that she didn't have the proper resources and tools to cope with. And that's why she became  a person that was really difficult for most people to be around.  because her, she was carrying this depression. 

And  I had seen signs of similar tendencies in myself that my grandma had. And when I found myself in India at an ashram in 2017,  I was really amazed hearing like miracle story after miracle story about how yoga is a tool that. 

 📍 can help  relieve 

people of suffering physically, mentally, emotionally, in all sorts of ways.

And my grandma's birthday happened while I was in the ashram. She was still alive at the time. And so I was doing a lot of reflecting about my grandma and her life and me and my life. And I just made a commitment to myself to give this yoga thing a shot. Because I didn't want to end up suffering in the way that my grandma did.  And  I had signed a contract to come to Israel after India and start a job. But while I was in the ashram, I started  crying a lot. Like,  During every yoga class, every meditation, every chanting, just like uncontrollable tears and crying.

And I was trying to understand. Now I know that we don't, can't always understand why these emotions are being released. But at the time I had to understand why these emotions were being released and The conclusion I came to was, I'm not going to do the job that I am contracted to do, and I'm going to stay in India and study yoga.  I'm taking this commitment seriously to give this thing a shot. every time I remember that commitment that I made to myself that here's this scientific method. It's worked for thousands of other people for thousands of years.

Give it a shot. And I just kept coming back to it and coming back to it and coming back to it. And now I can say it works.  

 That's amazing. So what would you tell or what do you tell people that you work with who feel unmotivated or maybe feel derailed and because of that feel unmotivated? 

First and foremost, to have compassion with where they're at,  because They've probably been through a lot  and most of us are our harshest critics  and we have to have compassion and acceptance for ourselves for any healing to happen.  um, and that can be hard.

Because it's really accepting, , I'm in this vulnerable position and it's uncomfortable and it's not where I want to be. but having compassion and,  yeah, I'll leave it at that. Compassion.  

 Rena, I am so curious about you mentioned orthorexia,  and  I know that you are a deeply aware person. I'm wondering how that came into your awareness that it was something, a crutch you were using, um, to maybe create order, or control  uh, that maybe felt uncontrolled or out of order. Would love to hear more 

 um, orthorexia. I also learned about in a roundabout way. It's not something I've been formally diagnosed with. It's a self diagnosis for whatever it's worth. Um, 

 📍 but   I had 

a lot of hormonal challenges.  I started taking birth control when I was 15 for irregular cycles, and then I had an IUD for a year, and I had the IUD taken out when I lived in Vietnam, I studied yoga, and then I came to Israel, and when I got to Israel, my life was all over the place for about a year, and then it started to settle, and then I started to see that there were, not normal things happening cyclically related to my hormones.

And so I started to see doctors and I had blood work done and there were a few red flags that came up, but generally the doctors were like, you practice yoga, you look healthy, we're not worried, you're fine.  And I just I felt anything but fine. So I started to do research on my own and understood that there was some connection between nutrition and hormones.  And then I just started to see my patterns around food and. wanting either to be perfect or not to eat. Like either it's going to be a gourmet meal or I'd rather not eat it.  and just like a lot of stress around grocery shopping and having food in the house. 

 📍 But it 

wasn't until I studied.

Integrative nutrition and health  that I learned the term orthorexia and orthorexia is different from anorexia and bulimia because those like you said, Amanda are rooted in a desire for control and there probably is a little bit of that with orthorexia, but it's also more about perfectionism.  And wanting to eat so healthily and so perfectly that then it crosses a line  because my symptoms were getting worse.

So I started to fear food,  because I didn't want to make it worse.  And  , I was putting pressure on myself, like, I have to eat super healthy, only the healthiest things, so that I won't make anything worse for myself physically.

 And it carried on for a couple of years because this, all this was unconscious.  And I realized that it, for me, it had crossed a line and that it was like putting way too much pressure. There was one day when I was out running errands, 

 and I felt so hungry. I was starving,  but I didn't want to eat anything outside the house because I created this whole story about it not being healthy  and I was also just so confused. I was so confused about what even would be healthy for me to eat that I was so scared to eat anything because I didn't want to make anything worse.

And I came home, and  there was not any food prepared, I was living with my former partner, and I threw a fit, , why isn't there food, and just like totally threw a fit, and he looked at me and he said, Rina, if you were so hungry, why didn't you just stop and eat something at the gas station,  , it shifted something in me. 

But I wasn't ready to accept it. I was like, oh, there's nothing healthy at the gas station. Which is a total lie!  I could have found something. But anyways, he said, well, is what you're doing healthy?  And I understood that it wasn't, but I wasn't ready to take responsibility for it until a couple of years later when I actually studied integrative nutrition and health and understood that, okay, this is a real thing and this is a problem.

And one of the primary reasons that I studied integrative nutrition and health was because I wanted to understand. What healthy was for me at that point. I had worked with a Chinese medicine doctor and he gave me a nutrition plan. But it was really hard to actually implement what he gave me and I felt that it's  still kept me in this victim mentality because I didn't have the information.

I didn't know.  And so I thank God. I studied at IIN, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, and they make the information really accessible and really simple. And I understood , okay, I need to eat healthy protein. I need to eat healthy fat. I need to eat healthy carbs.

I need to eat when I'm about when my body has hunger cues. And like the simplest thing is just eat anything that's as close to its natural source as possible. Eat a lot of vegetables. And if you're hungry, eating something is better than eating nothing.  And  it's definitely an ongoing recovery journey. 

With this orthorexia.  That's probably one of the things  , even more so than depression that will resurface any time. There's just like lots of things going on in life. I have to really  be conscious of.  Making sure I have food around so that I don't get to that point.

 I mentioned I live in Israel and there's obviously a war going on,  you know, there's a lot of stress in the air because of it at the start of the war last November, I left the country and actually went back to Vietnam, which , for me,  felt like a gift from the universe to be able to go back and I really closed out the trauma that I was experiencing there.

And that's a whole other story. The point is that when I made the decision to come back to Israel and to reenter a war zone, knowing that I have this history of unhealthy eating habits and orthorexia, the first thing I said to myself was, Rina, you need to choose what you're going to eat every single day and commit to eating that Every day, and it's going to be something that you like to eat, and it's going to have protein, fat, and carbs, and it's going to be simple.

What is it? And I thought, oh, in Vietnam, they eat pho almost every day. And I thought, oh my goodness, I can make bone broth.  And then have it in the freezer, and have it ready to go, and that will have tons of nutrients in it, and then I can have leafy greens, and I can whip up the leafy greens, and throw in some noodles, and throw in some spices, and it allows me to have enough variability that , I can play with the flavor a little bit.

So , it doesn't get super boring, because it's gonna change from day to day. And then , I also have a habit of fermenting food. And so I would have a little bit of fermented food on the side. 

And, , that's,  been really helpful.  

 That's really great. Yeah. Just for our listeners to orthorexia is an eating disorder that's characterized by an obsessive focus on healthy eating. So the focus, like you said, is on getting that sense of clean or pure eating and being very rigid to those rules. And does that match the definition that you, , understood , and we're kind of like working through.  Yeah. Yeah. So that's just for our lesson listeners who might not know. And  sure, I mean, I can see how that integrates into, , being in a stressful environment and I love hearing how you navigated that by saying, okay, I'm making this commitment to myself. It sounds like, , that's been the stronghold for you  throughout every milestone that you've hit, you've said, I am making this commitment to myself. , this is what that commitment looks like, and those commitments are what empowers you and what helps you on this healing journey. 



  Before I lived in Vietnam, lived in South Korea, and I spent my weekends hiking, and I would stumble upon Buddhist temples, , and , we learned about Buddhism in school, but didn't know much about it, and found this Buddhist temple, and they were giving free English tours,  so I took a tour, and this man, one of the first things he shared was, about the concept of  reincarnation. Thank you. And he said,  why would souls? choose to come down to this earth where there's so much suffering where it's so hard and where there's so much pain. I didn't have an answer and he said because this is the only place that we can do healing work and I don't identify as a Buddhist 

but for me, it was really Helpful to have that perspective. And it's something that I've kept with me   yeah, this world is full of a lot of suffering and it's really hard, but there must be a reason that my soul chose to come be on this earth. And that it's helpful for me to think about it that way.

And to say, I'm here to do healing.  , and I take it really seriously because  I don't want my soul to have to come back and suffer more.  When I focus on my own healing, it has a ripple effect to the people that are close to me, to the clients that I'm working with, , in so many other ways. So , it gives me motivation to come back and do the work.  

 That's a great segue. I am, , so impressed with your own healing journey and the compassion you have for yourself. But teaching yoga is, a lot about helping others to heal, , guiding people through a practice that has, , such healing properties. I would love to hear, how you chose to turn that healing outward and help others.

, and if that was always part of the journey, I know you were in the ashram and you decided to get, , certified to teach, , and if you ever had any doubts about that 

Yeah, it's a good question.  So before I studied yoga, I studied education. I have two, , bachelors in education. But I don't align with most school systems. And so , I never really found where I was going to work. And , I shared when I was in India, I had this job lined up in Israel, which I then backed out of to stay in India and study yoga.

 Before I studied to be a yoga teacher in India, , when I was in Vietnam, my yoga teacher there lent me her copy of the yoga sutras of Patanjali, which is  one of the basic philosophy of yoga books. And as I read it, I, Was blown away by the fact that, , I felt like I'd spent my whole life searching for this, and that I really believe that's what needs to be taught in schools, it's how to breathe, how to think positively, how to be conscious, how to eat, how to sleep, how to rest, how to do all the things that, , Most people, unfortunately, don't really learn how to do .

 And then when I was in India and I backed out of the job and I chose to stay to study yoga, to me, it also felt like, okay, I'm making a little bit of a career switch because  I see myself as a teacher, but this is what aligns with me to teach.

So that was a commitment that I made to myself. , and  when I studied yoga. I got really wonderful feedback from my teachers about the teaching that I provided, so I felt confident, but then I came straight to Israel, and suddenly, , all the doubts just swarmed me, and , I originally came to Tel Aviv.

 , everybody and their dog is a yoga teacher in Tel Aviv. So I, I was so intimidated by all of these people that in my mind had it all figured out and were way better than me and way more experienced than me. And here I was fresh off the boat, new immigrant, , what do I have to teach anybody? 

And I still was  committed to this. Career switch that I made. So , I taught one on one classes, mainly to friends. I taught a class on the beach that was open to the public and people came. I started teaching  in a hippie community center and managing their whole yoga program as a volunteer.

, but I still had all these doubts and people had wonderful feedback to give me about my classes, but , I didn't have full trust. I still felt like, who am I to be doing this? And then. After my first year living in Israel, there were a number of things that shifted in my personal life, and I spent the summer of 2018 recommitting to my own personal yoga practice,  and it was after that, that I felt like, okay, I've been through  transitions of my own, and I've come back to my yoga practice, and I've made it my own.

And now I can start to teach it, , but it's something that's ever evolving. And  , every class that I teach  and I don't expect it to ever go away. It would be great if it does,  before every class that I teach. I start to have doubts. I wonder if I'm the right person for the students.

And I have a little prayer that I say with myself and I hold my hands at my heart.  Take a deep breath, center myself.  And I say, and I'm not joking. This is what I say. I say, allow me to leave all my crap to the side and show up as a vessel and support of what these people need.  Thank you so much for the opportunity.

Let's go learn a lot.  

 Oh my God, I love  I relate to that for sure as well. Yoga has been a huge part of my life, , and just little backstory, but, , I started training when I was training Indian classical dance. That's how it was like integrated into my life as a child, right? So what you were talking about in terms of aligning with the educational components that come into it.

 Just what you're teaching and how to live that has always been interwoven in my life and has been a grounding element and something that I also seek to pass down to my own Children. , I guess my question and this is to both of you because Amanda, you're a yoga instructor as well.

And , I know a lot of this is resonating with you. , so for both of you, , what is it that you would say you've done or you've found to encourage making yoga and meditation a sustainable habit?  I know a lot of people have difficulty with that because they see,  yoga and meditation is like, Oh, this is the extra, right?

, if I get to it, then great. You know, but how do we make it sustainable? 

.  So, , I always say that yoga is the only form of movement that, , feels good in my body while I'm doing it, which in and of itself lends itself to, , longevity and sustainability. , other forms of exercise.  like something I needed to get through to get the benefits. Whereas yoga, the practice, feels like a hug while it's happening, you know?

  I think there are so many misconceptions about yoga. , people have in their minds, ,  something they've seen in a movie but I think the point I would love for our listeners to hear is that There are so many modalities and levels and speeds and intensities.

And really it's about, , getting on your mat,  breathing maybe for the first and only time of the day, deep, intentional breaths and coming home to yourself. And if that's all you do, that's, that's the, the first yoga sutra, right? As yoga begins now,  in 10 minutes when we're warm and,  feeling strong, , it's right now it's with this breath and then this one and then this one.

, so that's my answer. Rena, I can't wait 

Yeah.  Well, you're really lucky Amanda that yoga feels like a hug to you because it doesn't always feel like a hug to me.  And, , I often have to, get in my head and I have to just get into my body and just do the yoga. I take inspiration from my dad actually, .

he started meditating when I was a freshman in college and. My dad is really good with routine. It's really easy for him  to do that. , he started meditating with Headspace and it became a regular routine for him. And I saw how it was really helping him. And so when I made the decision to, to start practicing meditation regularly, I just took inspiration from him and said, okay, well, he was able to commit to it.

Starting with Headspace is 10 minutes.  for 10 days. And if he's had benefits from it, then I'll give it a fair shot. And I just found a window of time in my day that I could commit to that 10 minute window.  And I did it. And I noticed  who I was on days when I meditated and who I was on days when I didn't meditate.

And I wanted to be who I was on the days that I meditated.  And that was the same with the yoga practice. And I spoke about that summer when, , I recommitted to my personal practice, and that was also really what I understood, that I could see who I was on the days when I practiced yoga, and I could see who I was on the days that I didn't practice yoga.

And on the days that I practiced both yoga and meditation, I was much more focused, much more. clear with myself, much more productive and also much more calm. And those are things that I wanted. So,  coming back to that, why, but also   part of the work that I do today as an integrative nutrition health coach is helping people to build.

healthy habits. So  having that why is really important to come to start with. , but it takes more than that for  not always, but it can take more than that. So anytime that I myself am Implementing a new healthy habit. I'd use the framework that I'd use with my clients and it's basically looking at, okay, where am I right now?

Where do I really want to be?  Can I get to that place in six months? And if I can get to that place in six months, okay, then , what are the steps? Where do I need to be in three months so that I can be where I really want to be in six months? And what's realistic for me to expect of myself to be at in the next month? 

Considering where I am right now and considering where I want to go  and then   once those one month, three month and six months are clear, then it's breaking it down. And , I personally really like, , Daily tracking systems where I can sit down at the end of the day and make a note.

Did I do it or did I not do it? And then I can reflect  and then it's really helpful because we can be so hard on ourselves when we feel like we're not doing it to then see, oh, but look at all these days that I have been doing it. I am making progress.  

That's great. Yeah.  ahead, Amanda. 

  Well, I just wanted to amend. I think, , why yoga feels like a warm hug for me is because, , my background. , I have a history of anorexia and over exercising and cardio and counting the minutes on the treadmill and pounding my body into submission in a way that did not feel good  at all. So, , The practice of yoga is all internal.

It is not for external consumption.  It just feels like, , such a gift to practice in community, but not worrying about how I'm being judged by the shape or the appearance or the form of my body. So I just wanted to clarify that, especially since we're touching on eating disorders in this episode.

Yeah.

,

 Thank you, Amanda. I know  that's beautifully said. Absolutely. think, there are so many myths, . That go around these practices. What is one myth about self healing that you'd like to dispel based on your experiences and knowledge, Reena? 

to dispel.  I feel like I've dispelled a lot of myths in myself, so I'm like having a hard time even remembering what the myths are at this point. 

I think a lot of people come in with like preconceived notions about things, , especially when we're talking about yoga, meditation, integrative nutrition. , it's definitely in the forefront now. Absolutely. I'm so thankful that we're talking about it more, but I still think in my opinion,  there's a lot more ground to cover to make it part of our everyday lexicon and language. , and for me, , yoga meditation, these are not just practices, they're ways of living in life. Certainly help me stay grounded. And . I love sharing that, , one of our non negotiables in this house is once everything is done , with work and with play and with school,  we all come together, that's a non negotiable and we're meditating, even if it's just for 10 minutes.

And if that, , gets to be a yoga practice or what have you  beyond what we're doing individually, , as family members, then that's great too. And we'll do that. But it is a non negotiable that we come together to do that. So it's kind of our own little sungha,  that we've created.  I think there's, again, a lot of myths to integrating that in, and why it should be integrated in, and what have you, and I'm curious to know from you, , , what do you feel like you've been able to dispel? 

   Again, I can only speak from my own experience and I know that  it's unique to me.  But the biggest myth that I've been able to dispel is that most diseases are healable  and most diseases are not. 

We tend to think that they're genetic, but a lot of it is actually rooted in eating habits,  thought patterns, and other ways of being that are passed down from generation to generation, that it looks like it's genetic, but it's not.    I have an interesting relationship with diagnoses in general, because there's been a number of times in my life when I've been medically diagnosed with something that has turned out to then be false.  So I have been able to change my relationship with being diagnosed with something and understand that  the label isn't something that has to be carried with me so that then , once I understood that, which was, , about five years ago,  Ever since, and this I believe is also what allowed me to shift the PTSD into PTGO and not let it be something that held me back because once I understood that I was dealing with PTSD, I said, okay, , the label is just a label.

It's a medical diagnosis that is used to work the system.  But my personal experience gets to be whatever my personal experience is.  So, , people often think that I, , am anti conventional Western medicine, and I'm very much not anti conventional Western medicine. 

I'm anti labels that keep people closed in boxes, but having a diagnosis in my experience actually is really helpful. And that's something that comes from conventional Western medicine, the tools that are accessible to be able to get an accurate diagnosis, but then to stay empowered. And that's where, it gets tricky because  That whoever gives a diagnosis is going to also have their recommendations for healing, whatever has just been diagnosed.

And that's great that they have things to recommend, but  usually it's not all the options that are available for healing.  So what I've learned is to take a diagnosis, take it seriously, listen to the advice of the doctor that gave a diagnosis. And then , remember to stay empowered and not to fall victim to this diagnosis and to then take the information and do research.

 Okay,  what is the root cause of this diagnosis and based on other healing modalities, like Ayurvedic medicine, Chinese medicine, homeopathy, naturopathy, all the things that exist, how would they heal this?

I was diagnosed with PCOS. The doctor said, take hormonal birth control. Okay. So then I do my research. What are the risks of taking hormonal birth control? What are the benefits of taking hormonal birth control? And what are other options that I have instead of taking hormonal birth control? And then sit with myself and , only I can make that decision of , okay, now I have all the information.

I know what I'm working with. I know what my options are.  What's going to be my path forwards?  That's a myth that I hope the listeners , can take, to  accept a diagnosis , as an invitation for healing and  to do research about the diagnosis and , treatment methods that are recommended. 

 That's so great. Good. Yeah. , we are out of time for now, but there's so many other things I'd love to talk to you about. And so with that, we are going to land on our last question for today.  that is, what does recovery mean to you?  

That's a good question. I should have anticipated that one coming.    What does recovery mean to me? , for me, it's committing to being alive.  Because I go back to what I learned  when I was in Korea, that my soul and this is the way that I see it might be different for other people, but my soul made a choice to be on this earth because it's only in this physical form that I'm able to heal. 

And so staying committed to being alive and having myself like setting myself up for optimal functioning in my life. is what recovery means to me.  

  📍 Beautiful.  Thank you so much, Rena, for joining us today. 

My pleasure.

 I am so delighted that we got to share space together. Thank you for sharing everything you shared with our listeners today. . 

really has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. 



 Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of the recovery. com podcast for additional information, resources, and to access treatment options, please visit our website at recovery. com. We appreciate your listenership and are excited to have you join us on our next show coming soon.